操控...隨便啦...還不是一樣, skidpad 又沒有多人家 1G, 好煩阿, 整天看網上說操控, 朋友買了一台爛車也在說操控, 操來操去還不是一樣慢, 操控好又怎麼樣, 轉彎就是少了 0.2G, 出彎就是少了 50hp, 技術更爛...
說句難聽一點的, F-1 選手來開, 每一輛都好操好控, 沒有技術的開啥都吃灰.

操控 不等於 轉彎多了 200kg 的 down force 也不等於 轉彎會快上 10km/h.

Supra/RX7 都不好操不好控, 但是人家 skidpad 都在 1G 左右, 但是操控深受好評的 206 才 0.85G 吧...

不是說 206 不好, 我只希望大家能釐清
"操控不等於G值"

賽車學校比較重要吧, 至少讓有心人有學習的地方, 政府光要辦 F-1 卻不從基礎做起是不太可能成功的. 現在至少要有場地給 Go-kart 還有 Formula Ford. Formula Ford 是 GO-kart 的下一個階段, 是成為賽車手的必經之路, 再上去才是 F3000 等級的比賽...現在連 Formula Ford 都沒有...F-1...算了吧. ㄏㄏㄏ, 說到 Formula Ford 我有去參加訓練耶...三天ㄜ. 花了台幣...30000+...很貴, 但是很值得...賽車果然不適合我...我太窮了...存了好久才能去這麼一次... 簡短的介紹一下 Formula Ford 吧! 車子長的像 F-1 car 沒有下壓翼. 引擎是 Ford K series 的 1.6L 115hp...小爛...但是車身加上我只有 460 kg 耶!!! 馬力重量比跟 911 turbo 一樣歐! 變速箱是 4 前速, 沒有同步齒輪...換檔要 double clutch. 過彎有接近 2 G 吧, 但是不小心會 spin... 一開始教練給我們看錄影帶, 是過去的 F-1 比賽實況, 然後跟我們解釋為什麼...., 再來把大家分組(有經驗的跟沒經驗的), 然後去換防火衣, 賽車衣, 頭盔...讓大家坐車子習慣習慣, 然後等大家都可以"移動車子"後, 教練就把路線標出來, 然後把煞車點也標出來, 一開始不可以用到 4 檔. 等到教練認為你可以控制以後才讓你玩真的(賽道上可以到 200km/h+). 第一天是讓大家習慣車子(排檔在右邊...還好我平常有在玩法拉利模擬, 排檔也在右邊), 第二天讓大家練習, 糾正壞習慣, 學習路線, 煞車點...等等. 第三天讓得到教練準許的人去比一場...但是不可以超車, 除非是在直線上, 假如前車太慢, 裁判會揮旗, 慢車就要讓路. 假如平常會用 double clutch, heel and toe ㄉ人就可以很快的適應. 我對這 3 天訓練的評價是: 我花過最有價值的 30000.

1. 換輪胎
2. 換懸吊
3. 換煞車
4. 引擎改裝
5. 減重

當然最重要的是"改裝自己"...技術第一.
一輛車在 8000rpm 有 200 hp , 但是有多少人可以全程保持在 6000rpm~9000rpm?
所以好的技術 = +50 hp.

完全贊同大頭大大的話.

2.0 V6 沒有啥不好, Mitsubishi Fto ㄉ Mivec 不就是一個好例子?
200 hp / 147 lbft 夠好吧?
F355 被 Uno 電...還是試車手...唉...

我也常開 F355 耶, 不過是大型ㄉ模擬, 但是很好玩.

要講操控,先多多磨練自己的技術吧!
*********************************
Tri 老前輩真的訴講到偶的心坎裡...嘴掛著操控操控, 眼睛看別人車屁屁揚長而去的比比皆是.
操控性不等於下壓力比別人多兩百公斤的道理看來懂的不多...

P.S. 好久不見哩

你好冷...哈..口秋!

實力不夠...

每一個賽車手都會甩尾, 因為那是"基本動作". 上至 F-1 下至 Go-Kart, 都能在下意識甩尾, 代表說他們能完全控制車, 但甩的利害並不代表比賽會贏, 因為大家都做的到.
結論是, 土屋是職業賽車手, 他必勝. 找周伯雄不如找陳俊杉...

甩尾(我的意思是 4 wheel drift 不是 oversteer)在山路上比較快吧, 在不熟的跑道, 根本沒辦法看出最佳路線, 大部份時間都只能 out-in-out 和 4 wheel drift 來增加出彎的速度. 有的彎不甩快, 有的彎看不到 apex, 但是在你看不到路的山道上, 也只能"用猜的",
山路和賽車場是兩回事, 山路有山路的技巧, 賽車場有自己的技巧.

小地的建議是多看, 不要只看一家.
最好是有數據的試車報告而不是詞藻華麗卻全無內容的垃圾雜誌.
Auto Car
Sports Compact Car
Best Motoring(我覺得有時候很偏, 但是還可以參考)
其他還有很多, 但一時想不起來.
不過看歸看, 還是自己試最準, 不要被偏激的批評而錯過一輛適合自己的車.

好恐怖ㄜ...我竟被點名回答問題... 還好知道答案...ㄜ程度不太高, 請各位還是"看乎清, 認乎明"指名詢問小可愛大大, 博啟大大, Triton 大大 等等"知識份子".

呵呵呵
好久不見了!!!
大家還好嗎?
F-1 開始我也開學了, 現在我的飆車季節也結束了.

要超越Schumic+Ferrari這樣的前浪..

我的意思是 Montoya & Kimi 正威脅著 Micheal.

小的認為 Coulthard 很危險, Kimi 會帶給他相當大的壓力, 假如他撐不到 Mika 回來...他可能會被處理掉...唉.

小弟ㄉ印像中, Proche 有在60年代參加過 F-1, 還贏過單站冠軍, 後來還以引擎供應商的身份參加...叫 TAG ㄉ樣子...不太確定.
會退出的原因也是因為錢...

呵呵, 被 IntegraR 大大取笑了:)
我覺得自己對玩車又有點進步了, 不追求0~100, 也不追求過彎 G 值, 只希望技術可以再進步. 畢竟技術是買不到的.

好久沒來了...
操控性...嗯...
有的人把操控性跟極限混在一起, 小地覺得操控性是車子的與車主溝通的能力吧. 車子作的好, 可以從方向盤與屁股感覺到車子是否穩定(職業賽車手可以感覺到 10% 的胎壓變化...超強的).
小地認為把操控做的最好的是 Peugeot 306GTi...前一陣子有幸開到一輛原廠未改的. 把 306 拿去做 skidpad test 你會發現它其實不怎麼樣. 但是它卻是歐洲 GTi 的指標, 原因是它真的很好操作(須要一點膽量, 一點技術). 小地覺得操控性好就代表車子在與車手溝通時讓車手得到信心, 讓車手清楚的感覺到車子的狀態.
小地覺得其實每輛車都有一定的操控性(溝通能力), 假如車手很敏銳(賽車手), 一部鈍鈍的車他也能把它開的很好, 但是對大部份人(沒那麼敏銳)操控性是絕對重要的.
306GTi 在接近極限時後輪會側滑, 但前輪仍保持相當抓地力, 假如在摧油門, 會造成四輪飄移(危險), 不過一放油門又會回到正常...棒...好棒....

Best Motoring isnt "fair" on the cars they tested all the time.

Understeering isnt a "bad" thing.

Winning or losing depends on skill.

~happy new year everyone~

I am here lah!
I dont use internet too often now, go racing is better than talking hehe ^^.

Hello everyone~ I come here often, just kept my mouth shut coz I cant type in Chinese now coz of many reasons. I dont like to communicate in english with my countrymen... Just fixed my engine few weeks ago...the old one blown when I was racing on race track with my friends...expensive new engine...

Its no joke when facing a MR-S on the mountains...its freaking fast around corners and it lasts the distance. Since its so light, the brakes last longer and thats one reason that mere 140hp kick ass...kicked my ass last night...from the look and the sound of it, about 170hp n/a and the ride height was really low with nice lookin body kit, the drive was skillful, drifts at some corners...DAMN!!!
I thought IntegraR was very very hard to beat, now comes the MR-S...

山上開不到極速...阿!!!
通常速度都在 70~170km/h...
台灣山路也不少吧, 只是可能比較不會比全程. 我看大部份人的 post 都是比 0~400m, 不知道耐力好不好.

These r from magzine tests. The 0~100 times depends on the initial conditions such as skill level of test driver, weather...etc, i only put up the shortest time i have seen on magzine since its the "true" potential of the car.

COOL~
I like RSX!!! but i already have a car.
i havent had a chance to test drive it yet...
is it a R? type-S?

不速奧州啦...
澳洲也有 R 吧, 應該是 205hp 版本.
好像只有 USA 叫 RSX...
這邊不少自己搞進來的原裝 R...好快...

全部吃 nitro 最猛呵呵呵.
以後說不定引擎是核融合的哩...贊!

sorry..."brakes" not "breaks"...i had a hard hard day, my brain isnt functioning well...

Brembo?(i think the stock break r really good)
sports springs(less body roll)
HKS exhaust(add about 5 hourses, depends on the product)
body kit?(looks really cool~)
in my opinion, there isnt much to tune other than the engine, the chasis is good enough to stand 250~300hp.
tell me when u super ur engine, try not to dust others too often ^_^.

P.S if u wanna go hardcore, get NOS hehehe

well...that depends on how far u wanna go, its the best let experts do the job(the car would be more balanced and the engine would last longer), if there r packages on the market in canada, do those. i know Blitz is offering a package with power upgrade(250hp) and chasis upgrade. if u r not satisfied, get forged pistons, crank-shafts, hi-cams, counter weights or even a lighter fly wheel...but make sure u can handle the car.

Super charger is pretty ok...250hp
FF is not as fun as FR or MR...

2 330CI:
6MT helps acceleration a bit, i just love shift hehehe.
u mite b dissapointed about MR-S, its the 3rd gen of MR series, its a roadster with little power, only 140hp. BUT! it is lite, 1 of the litest in that catagory, mid engine is always the best 4 performance and the worst 4 golf bags...and u can only have 1 chick on ur car...but it has superior handling and cornering limit compare 2 any car under 2L. u can buy MR-S and turbo charge it...after that, u o have a car as fast as EVO(all u need to do is add a single turbo running at 12psi = 265hp) or Porche(if u r that hardcore, get 3S-GTE and tune it to above 300hp~400hp).
0~100km/h b4 tuning is about 7~8 seconds...after tuning...4.5 seconds and lower.

VVT-i: variable valve timing only. VVTL-i: variable valve timing with 2 stage variable valve lift.
1ZZ-FE: 140 horses
2ZZ-GE: 180 horses
U can tune both GTS & GT with super charger, i enjoy high rev so i bought GTS. its not a mistake to buy a GT version, its cheaper...but go get the new RSX or MR-S, RSX is faster and MR-S has great great potential and its a cornering machien(well over 0.9G). 6MT rules.

重機酷!!!
開四輪的我只能望塵莫及...

騎重機真的是終極快感!!!

個人認為把 AE86 國產化最棒!!!
從以前到現在又有幾輛1.6L車擁有這種性能及輝煌歷史?!

#把造型弄流線但保持簡單.
#馬力 150~170hp 左右.
#後驅!
#5 速手排
#1.6L
#重 950~1000kg
#有冷氣, 音響就夠, 其他都不要!!!

越簡單越好!!!

I can beat EVO with my Celica if and only if these conditions apply:
1. a parked EVO(i think i can pass it @ 200km/h)
2. an EVO that obeys the speed limit(which u can hardly find)
3. EVO in traffic jam and if i can some how get through faster(kinda impassible)
4. Evo driven by an old man(probably could still dust my face)
5. in my dreams(havent had one yet -__-)

the conclusion is...EVO 7 RULES!!!

Yup, great website.

但是 Supra 台灣沒有賣...要不然網路上那些詌 Toyota 的人們不會存在.

Supra RZ was once the top gun of all Jap cars and still goin strong...had full potential to assualt Porche 911 Turbo...but...not on sale any more outside of Japan...sadly...

hope there will be a replacement...
V-6 2 X turbo? V-8 turbo? V-10 N/A?...nah...280hp only.

Yup, great website.

但是 Supra 台灣沒有賣...要不然網路上那些詌 Toyota 的人們不會存在.

Supra RZ was once the top gun of all Jap cars and still goin strong...had full potential to assualt Porche 911 Turbo...but...not on sale any more outside of Japan...sadly...

hope there will be a replacement...
V-6 2 X turbo? V-8 turbo? V-10 N/A?...nah...280hp only.

Supra Turbo 4.6
Nissan Skyline GT-R 4.6
Subaru Impreza WRX STi 4.6
Mitsubishi Lancer GSR Evo VII 4.7
Honda NSX 4.9
Mazda RX-7 5.1
Subaru Impreza WRX 5.4
Nissan Silvia 5.5
Honda S2000 5.6
Lexus GS430 5.9
Honda Integra Type R 6
Mitsubishi Galant VR4 6
Lexus SC430 6.2
Celica-GTS 6.6
Lexus LS430 6.7
Civic Type R 6.8
Mitsubishi FTO 6.9
Honda (Acura) 3.2CL Type S 7
Nissan Maxima 7
Honda Accord Type R 7.1
Lexus IS300 7.1
Mitsubishi Eclipse 7.1

剛剛漏掉 FTO!!! 現在補上了.
所以哩, 因為有這麼多的選擇, 國外的 Eclipse....哈啾...好冷阿...

所以哩, 買 Eclipse 不如買 FTO.

排名 車款 0-60mph time (sec)
01 Caterham 7 Superlight R500 3.4
02 Porsche 911 GT2 3.9
03 Porsche 911 Turbo 3.9
04 TVR Tuscan S 3.9
05 Lamborghini Diablo GT 4
06 TVR Cerbera 4.2 4
07 TVR Cerbera 4.5 4.1
08 Ferrari 360 Modena 4.2
09 Lotus Esprit V8 4.2
10 TVR Tuscan Speed Six 4.2
11 Chrysler (Dodge) Viper 4.3
12 Aston Martin Vanquish 4.4
13 Shelby Series I 4.4
14 Porsche 911 GT3 4.5
15 TVR Cerbera Speed Six 4.5
16 Ferrari 550 Maranello 4.6
17 Supra Turbo 4.6
18 GM Chevrolet Corvette Z06 4.6
19 Lamborghini Diablo VT 6.0 4.6
20 Lotus 340R 4.6
21 Mercedes C32 AMG 4.6
22 Nissan Skyline GT-R 4.6
23 Porsche 911 Carrera 4.6
24 Subaru Impreza WRX STi 4.6
25 Audi RS4 4.7
26 BMW Z8 4.7
27 Mitsubishi Lancer GSR Evo VII 4.7
28 BMW M Coupe 4.8
29 BMW M3 4.8
30 Ford Mustang Cobra R 4.8
31 Porsche 911 Carrera 4 4.8
32 Honda NSX 4.9
33 Mercedes SLK32 AMG 4.9
34 BMW M5 5
35 Maserati 3200GT 5
36 Ferrari 456M 5.1
37 Jaguar XKR 5.1
38 Mazda RX-7 5.1
39 TVR Chimaera 4.5 5.1
40 Aston Martin DB7 Vantage 5.2
41 Holden HSV Commodore GTS 300 5.2
42 GM Chevrolet Corvette 5.3
43 Jaguar XJR 5.3
44 Mercedes E55 AMG 5.3
45 GM Chevrolet Camaro Z28 5.4
46 Lotus Exige 5.4
47 Subaru Impreza WRX 5.4
48 Ford Mustang Cobra 5.5
49 Ford Mustang GT 5.5
50 Mercedes CLK55 AMG 5.5
51 Nissan Silvia 5.5
52 Porsche Boxster S 5.5
53 Honda S2000 5.6
54 Holden HSV Commodore GTS 5.7
55 Aston Martin DB7 5.8
56 Bentley Continental T 5.8
57 Lotus Elise 5.8
58 Opel Speester 5.8
59 Audi S6 5.9
60 Bentley Arnage Red Label 5.9
61 BMW 540i 5.9
62 Caterham 21 Supersport 5.9
63 Lexus GS430 5.9
64 Subaru Legacy B4 RSK 5.9
65 Honda Integra Type R 6
66 Mercedes CL500 6
67 Mercedes CL600 6
68 Mitsubishi Galant VR4 6
69 Audi TT Coupe Quattro 6.1
70 Mercedes CLK430 6.1
71 Qvale Mangusta 6.1
72 BMW Z3 3.0 6.2
73 Lexus SC430 6.2
74 Mercedes S500 6.2
75 Bentley Arnage 6.3
76 Volkswagen Passat W8 6.3
77 Audi A6 V8 6.4
78 Audi S3 6.4
79 GM Cadillac Deville DTS 6.4
80 Porsche Boxster 2.7 6.4
81 BMW 750il 6.5
82 Chrysler (Plymouth) Prowler 6.5
83 Infiniti Q45 6.5
84 Mercedes E430 6.5
85 Saab 9-3 Viggen 6.5
86 Volkswagen Beetle RSi 6.5
87 Alfa GTV 3.0 V6 6.6
88 Audi A4 3.0 6.6
89 Jaguar XK8 6.6
90 Renault Clio Sport 2.0 6.6
91 Volvo C70 6.6
92 Celica-GTS 6.6 (呵呵呵, 好險我還排在前一百名!!!)
93 Audi S8 6.7
94 BMW 330i 6.7
95 Lexus LS430 6.7
96 Saab 9-5 Aero 6.7
97 Volvo S40 T4 6.7
98 Volvo S80 T6 6.7
99 BMW 530i 6.8
100 GM Cadillac Seville STS 6.8
101 GM Pontiac Grand Prix GTP 6.8
102 Volvo S60 T5 6.8
103 Civic Type R 6.8
104 BMW 325ti Compact 6.9
105 Ford Thunderbird 7
106 Honda (Acura) 3.2CL Type S 7
107 Nissan Maxima 7
108 Honda Accord Type R 7.1
109 Lexus IS300 7.1
109 Mitsubishi Eclipse 7.1 <------------------- (在這里!!!)

甚麼夠了 @_@?

感謝 Pit crews 大大!!!